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ceiteanHey, guys.
You remember how we were shown White!Alice asking Break to do something for her, but not what that something was?
And you know how this series is called PANDORA Hearts? As in, Pandora's box?
Look at Break's pupil- see anything weird? Here's a hint: it's freaking square.
Even though White!Alice's voice cut out at the last second, I think we were still given a clue as to what she wanted from Break. I think it's whatever it is that's reflected in his eye.
So the question then would be- what's the reflection showing? The first and most obvious connection is to go from square -> box -> some kind of literal Pandora's Box. Even in one of Glen's speeches we're shown an actual box, though I'll be damned if I can figure out what the hell he's trying to say. :/
Another interpretation that I think is likely is that it's a far view of a table with a (possibly bloodstained) knife on it. Which would make sense if Gil was the one that killed Human!Alice, something that was hinted at in the latest chapters.
Or it could be something else that I can't think of right now. XD
But however you interpret that image, it has to have something to do with Break's stated goal of 'finding out what happened a hundred years ago.' I just wonder if what White!Alice originally asked wasn't a bit more specific than what Break has told us so far, which, you have to admit, would be very like him.
You remember how we were shown White!Alice asking Break to do something for her, but not what that something was?
And you know how this series is called PANDORA Hearts? As in, Pandora's box?
Look at Break's pupil- see anything weird? Here's a hint: it's freaking square.
Even though White!Alice's voice cut out at the last second, I think we were still given a clue as to what she wanted from Break. I think it's whatever it is that's reflected in his eye.
So the question then would be- what's the reflection showing? The first and most obvious connection is to go from square -> box -> some kind of literal Pandora's Box. Even in one of Glen's speeches we're shown an actual box, though I'll be damned if I can figure out what the hell he's trying to say. :/
Another interpretation that I think is likely is that it's a far view of a table with a (possibly bloodstained) knife on it. Which would make sense if Gil was the one that killed Human!Alice, something that was hinted at in the latest chapters.
Or it could be something else that I can't think of right now. XD
But however you interpret that image, it has to have something to do with Break's stated goal of 'finding out what happened a hundred years ago.' I just wonder if what White!Alice originally asked wasn't a bit more specific than what Break has told us so far, which, you have to admit, would be very like him.
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Date: 2009-09-22 12:01 pm (UTC)hello :3
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Date: 2009-09-22 01:29 pm (UTC)The first time I read that chapter my reaction was very much like: '...WTF IS THAT.' 0.o
Still, very interesting, no?
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Date: 2009-09-22 01:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-09-22 07:11 pm (UTC)It is very interesting! I usually just go with the flow of things, and so hearing different ideas I'm like OH SNAP and think it's awesome.
Unless it's depressing. Then it's not a good idea :[
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Date: 2009-09-22 12:45 pm (UTC)Good eye though! xD
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Date: 2009-09-22 01:37 pm (UTC)Since I saw this, I've really been trying to figure out how the concept of Pandora's Box would play into this series. You've got the metaphorical interpretation of the Abyss as the Box (full of nightmarish things, but there's a core of light- maybe). But now there's also the chance that there's an actual box floating around, which could be very interesting.
I really think Mochizuki has planted a lot of clues in this manga, all hidden in plain sight. I think I may have found a couple, but I'm sure there's more. :X
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Date: 2009-09-22 05:59 pm (UTC)At any rate, I've been thinking on the topic of Pandora's box for the last few weeks, and I believe you may have a point. Metaphorically speaking the Abyss certainly could be the box. It's most definitely filled with monstrous, nightmarish things, and White!Alice could certainly be interpreted as the "hope" in the box, if by her appearance of light itself. If Pandora Hearts follows the tale of Pandora's box, however, it seems to me like the contents of the Abyss may well be dumped into the human world, which, to be blunt, would suck for everyone.
But then if you consider the possible motives of the organization Pandora, they could likely be attempting to prevent that release of darkness, as they are solely focused on speaking with the Will of the Abyss--White!Alice or "Hope", if you will, who has become crazed with loneliness. Honestly, to me it seems like she (at one time) very well could have been an innocent being (human or chain), but I have to say that being cooped up in darkness and despair for that long could more than likely drive any sane creature loopy.
Then again, with every anime series, you know there is going to be a massive, horrible twist, and all my theories will be thrown out the window. *nod* It happens all the time, and it's not like my theories make much sense this time around. Sorry for blathering on. XD;
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Date: 2009-09-23 03:39 am (UTC)When Glen gives his little monologue (chapter 37, p 12), he talks about Abyss being in an uproar, something that would even cause problems with contracted chains, and about the 'golden world covered in darkness.'
And Pandora was formed after the Tragedy, to study Abyss and to deal with illegal contractors.
I think the illegal chains running around that Pandora has been dealing with for the last hundred years are the nightmares that were let loose when Pandora's Box was opened. And if that's the case, then the contents of Abyss have already been dumped into the human world in the form of chains who make illegal contracts.
It's also interesting to note that Pandora's has been telling little white lies about the whole contracting business. Break said that it was Pandora who developed a way for chains to be legally contracted, but that can't be true because Pandora dates it's existence from after Sabrie and we have proof (Lottie, Glen) that it was possible for people to have contracts with chains before the Tragedy.
On Alice- I'm not gonna lie, thinking about the various 'Alices' gives me a headache. XD I don't know if we can really attach a 'good' or 'bad' label on any Alice, which makes things difficult. White!Alice is clearly bonkers, most probably driven insane by Vincent even before she was totally trapped at the bottom of Abyss. And it's also pretty clear that White!Alice is Jack's sweet and innocent Alice. Chain!Alice looks like the rough Alice, the one that made Jack say, "You aren't Alice."
At one point they looked like they were two souls inhabiting one body- one soul would be in Abyss while the other had control of the body. But then things got really effed up when someone killed that body. Looking at the aftermath, I'd say that it was Rough!Alice who was in charge when Alice was stabbed, which means it was Rough!Alice who 'died,' trapping White!Alice in Abyss. And we know that the opening of the Door let out the power of Abyss, which turns living people (the creatures who wandered into Sabrie) and inanimate things into Chains. Going by Cheshire, some of the inanimate things that Abyss can turn are corpses.
So I think it's possible that the whole reason Chain!Alice is alive at all is because the body she died in was left in the area of influence that the power of Abyss corrupted.
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Date: 2009-09-22 06:12 pm (UTC)I wanna discuss this with you a whoooollle bunch but I gotta go to work. I'll comment again later! <3
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Date: 2009-09-23 03:03 am (UTC)forgive me~ tired
Date: 2009-09-23 04:07 am (UTC)You certainly caught something important here, but I really don't know if there is enough to learn anything more. At least, nothing obviously apparent yet?
I understand the box, but not the knife, at least, not how the knife is linked specifically to "Gilbert" rather than specifically to "B.Alice's death". The point is to know the truth, right? At this point Xerxes doesn't know Gil. Okay, I understand the possibility of it being a knife but I don't understand why you said "which would make sense if Gil was the one who killed Human!Alice . . . ". Why does that make sense? Isn't it more-so the what and how rather than the who?
I'm not asking why you think Gil killed anyone, cause I agree the possibility is there, certainly, but I'm asking why White!Alice would be showing this to Break at this particular point in time. Like, I understand why the knife would be there, just not why it would be there now.
Perhaps it was memories, or what could be remembered by either Alice being reflected into Break's mind so as to lend what little is known?
Or perhaps it is the "box" which is the key to understanding the tragedy?
Whatever it is- you caught it. Nice. <3
I have a lot of questions and what-not. I'm currently sleep deprived but when I can function more properly I will compile them and post them on lj so we can discuss.
You're fun already! Yay! <3
Re: forgive me~ tired
Date: 2009-09-23 05:15 am (UTC)Okay, so. Up until a few chapters ago, the leading theory was that Vincent killed Alice since we've seen him with the scissors in the hallway at Sabrie, running to Alice's tower after, and then when we see Alice's body, the scissors are next to her, bloodstained, looking like a murder weapon.
But in the last few chapters we've see more and more of Gil's memories resurfacing. And every time, we're shown Gil holding a knife.
Gil with a knife:
Remember Gil's mantra of 'I'll kill anyone who hurts my master!'? Well, Jack looks pretty hurt there. So who did Gil blame for this outcome... ?
Oh look, here's Gil pointing a knife:
But why would Gil do that to Alice? It's not like he has a history of hostility with her or anything...
I'm pretty sure there's one more image of Gil with a knife, but I can't find it right now, will keep looking. :X
So in my head, this has kind of turned into a game of Clue. The scissors are highly associated with Vincent- he still uses them to cut up dolls in the future and even the cover art has an faded image of his scissors in his background (Oz has the pocket watch, Cheshire has the ripped up memories, Jack has the Abyss ripples, etc). So if Alice was indeed killed by being stabbed with the scissors- since it does look like she was stabbed- then it is highly likely that the one who killed her was Vincent. But if she was stabbed with a knife...
But here's the problem. We've got all of these flashbacks, but we have no clue what order they actually happened in. The only thing we know for sure is that Alice died sometime within the timeframe of the Tragedy. We were told that Gil had died (apparently not, which means Alice was lying), and that Jack had died fighting Glen (again, apparently not, since he was around to seal Glen's soul after the fight, which means that Vincent was lying), and that Glen is still alive (for some strange definition of 'alive.') There have been a ton of fakeouts so far, with Jack's and Gil's bodies lying bloodstained on the floor, despite the fact that they both seemed to survive the night. Mind you, this doesn't mean that no one thought they were dead and acted on what they thought they saw, as Vincent did seems to have with opening the door.
And speaking of Vincent- I really am approaching this series as a mystery that's unfolding and in mysteries, the person who you think is the killer at the half way mark? Ain't the killer. I know that's a really flimsy foundation to think that Vincent wasn't necessarily the one who killed Alice, but it gives me enough reason to suspect we haven't seen everything yet. Hence, the knife. If it's a knife and not just a box. XD
Re: forgive me~ tired
Date: 2009-09-23 05:37 am (UTC)Why would Alice show this to Break? I honestly have no clue. XD
If it's the knife, maybe what she wants Break to find out is something involving how she died. If it's the box, then it's something that transcends anything we know so far and there's no way I can make anything other than a wild guess. XD
You've got a good point, the reflection could be the result of memories White!Alice 'gave' to Break. And if they are, then it makes what Break said after Cheshire's place, that all wasn't for loss because just the experience helped him 'remember' a few things, all the more interesting in hindsight. We haven't been able to hear or clearly see what it was that White!Alice wanted, but I wonder if Break knows by now and is just keeping his cards close to his chest.
Re: forgive me~ tired
Date: 2009-09-23 12:35 pm (UTC)I really don't much care for these "bluffs", honestly. I feel like they're all cheap tricks. I feel like instead of really learning the "truth" we're ust learning someone lied. *sigh* Only more questions arise.
Of course, on the other hand, ph wouldn't be nearly as fun, either. <3
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Date: 2009-09-22 08:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-09-23 02:28 am (UTC)