(no subject)

[ceitean]

Belated reactions to PH and xxxHolic -



BREAAAAAAAAAAAAAAK. D: D: D:

Rip my heart right out of my chest, why don't you Mochizuki. It's a little pesky thing, I'm sure I don't need it any more.

I discovered something interesting, though, in how I approach PH. Apparently I've been looking at the story through Break's perspective without quite realizing it. This isn't all that much of a surprise - I love mysteries and clues and solving puzzles, and Break is the detective in this story (there was even an omake where JM made fun of that role, which I thought was really funny). So it really makes sense that I've been experiencing PH through his perspective.

Only now whenever I try and think even a little bit ahead, whenever I try and picture how a future scene might look, all I see is a dark blank nothingness, because Break is freaking blind. I am not even kidding, it is so weird. Right after I read the chapter, I tried to picture what might happen if Gil had to confront Duke Nightray, or what would happen if Sharon got a character promotion to replace Break's role in Oz's party (which is what I think is going to happen, btw), but I just couldn't visualize it at all because Break couldn't see it. I just. idek

But things are getting very interesting, for sure. Human experiments? So not surprised. And Eliot was amaaaaazing, and his face when Oz was all, "I WANT TO BE YOUR FRIEND!!1!!" Love it.

And poor Gil. I really think he needs to do some soul searching. It's like...he's happy being co-dependent, it's what he's used to and it provides a sense of security for him, but now he's being forced out of that security and he's really not dealing with it well. What I really want is for Gilbert to realize that he did, in fact, live ten years of his live without Oz Vessalius. They may have been sucky years, but he did it. And I really do think that realizing he can be his own person is going to break him, but... he has to, he has to grow up.

But then you figure in the brainwashing and the manipulative little brother and the amnesia and the worst mentor-figure in the world and even Oz, who is gonna hold on as tight to Gilbert as he possibly can...yeah. Things aren't looking so bright for Mr. Nightray.







And Holic. Watanuki, Watanuki, Watanuki...

First off, and this is really late, but I feel it needs to be said - Watanuki, sweetie? You do not get to look smug and knowing because you finally started to figure out that Doumeki isn't just some guy who lives to annoy you. Especially when this realization took FOUR FREAKING YEARS, multiple life (and quality of life) saving shenanigans, and an entire readjustment of one's future career prospects. Honestly, you'd think that with the smoking and the kimonos and the trauma of abandonment Watanuki would have changed in some fundamental way, but no. No, he has not. He is still dense as a brick. He needs to wait for Yuuko to come back just so she can laugh at him and tell him he is being an idiot for, oh my god, so many reasons.

Speaking of which. How the hell does Watanuki know that she'll come back anyway? I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the woman was snuffed out of existence pretty effectively in the end of Tsubasa. The only way I can think of for Yuuko to come back is if Yuuko's existence is actually grounded in the future. Which would mean she technically hasn't died yet, Clow Reed hasn't wished her to stay alive, and FWR hasn't yet been created yet to bring her back. Any other possible ideas? Because I'm coming up blank.

(...though. If you follow the 'Watanuki becomes/is another Clow Reed' thing, you could take another look at something Yuuko said in the beginning, that Clow told her they'd have many happy years together (which they obviously didn't, considering how she was trying to strangle that staff). But if Watanuki is some kind of reflection, or is, Clow Reed, then yeah. They did have some happy years together. Just not the way Yuuko may have been expecting. /crack theory)

Comments

[eire-endellion.livejournal.com]

... your crack theory might actually be plausible. I mean, this IS CLAMP.

I've been saying this to everyone, and I'll say it here too; I do not care about Doumeki, I want Himawari to make an appearance! D= I can't believe she'd just fade away in significance like that, not after the rest of the series.

... i am making no sense today so i'm going to stop now xD

[ceitean.livejournal.com]

I miss Himawari, too.

I've been starting to wonder if her lack of appearances is intentional on her part. Maybe she's keeping her distance on purpose, though that'd be sad considering that she looked like she was willing to try and get closer before the whole Yuuko-has-disappeared thing. Then again, maybe she continued to try and get closer, only to have the almost-dying-via-payment thing happen. I can totally see Himawari after that, smiling as she says she decided to go to school in freaking Hokkaido.:\

[bottledenigma.livejournal.com]

OMG THIS, THANK YOU. xxxHolic is getting so annoying because Watanuki is so stubborn (I mean...he's wearing HER CLOTHES to get her back. Watanuki, please think for a second, IS THAT REALLY GOING TO WORK???). Only way Yuuko could come back, that I can think of is as some sort of ~ghost~ and tries to convince watanuki that she's not coming back (like you said...yuuko laughing at him is probably the only way he'll change), watanuki finds some weird resurrection thing and tries it out for yuuko (I think I might have got that from watching too much FMA 8D), Watanuki acts like Yuuko so much he just ends up being the true shop owner and learns to accept that(well that's too boring...), or that crack theory. Who knows? Clamp works in strange ways...

It's been 4 years? Few months I understand but that? gosh he's slow.

[ceitean.livejournal.com]

For real. I can give Watanuki some leeway room in the beginning, but he should have gotten over his skewed perception of Doumeki after the Spider Arc. And after the Fall out the Window? Forget it, there's just no excuse. -_-

I just really want to know why Watanuki seems so certain that Yuuko is, hell, that she can even, come back. Did I miss a chapter? What's going on?

[anyjen.livejournal.com]

Well, I think he's waiting for her reincarnation... remember, Buddhist belief, people who were once connected in a past life will be connected again in the following? Red string of fate and all that? I know every time it's been mentioned it has been with Watanuki and Doumeki, but since Yuuko played such an important part in Watanuki's life, I think it applies to them, too.

The whole reincarnation thing has happened before in the CLAMP verse, and I kinda understood that's what Watanuki meant back in chapters 180/181.

Still, that whole Watanuki = Clow would make sense. After all, Yuuko said (back when Kohane turned out to have one of Sakura's feathers inside her) that time and space had been distorted, and it would even fit a lot of the facts we know of Clow from CCS, too, in a really twisty way....

Man, if he turned out to be Clow, then xxxholic and Tsubasa would really give Doctor Who a run for its money when it comes to weird time twists...

[ceitean.livejournal.com]

...sure, make it glaringly simple, why don't you. XD

General reincarnation would be the easiest way to untangle this, but it'd still do some freaky age thing in the process. If Yuuko reincarnates, there's no guarantee it'd be in the same dimensions as Watanuki, or even for when she'd be reborn - right after her first (botched) death, or 4 years ago?

(i've been meaning to catch up on dw! i need to watch half of the martha episodes and all of the donna ones, though...)

[anyjen.livejournal.com]

...sure, make it glaringly simple, why don't you. XD

Well, I'm an optimist. XD

when she'd be reborn - right after her first (botched) death, or 4 years ago?

Er, well, the CLAMP standard seems to be about a century after the moment of their "death"... at least looking at the numbers in Wish and CCS. Clow's house in Japan was at least a hundred years old, and the person who reincarnated in Wish (not gonna say who in case you didn't read that one) did so a hundred years after dying... or close to a hundred years. When we see them again they're a teenager, so they'd have been reborn in year 85 or so after their death...

But you're right in asking which of her deaths we should be counting from. If it was her first death, and she was contemporary to Clow, then she would be due to be reborn sometime after her second death (or even before... botched timelines, and all that). So, after the timeskip she could be anything from a three-year-old to a teenager, getting ready to make her inevitable appearence at the shop. Or, she could be somewhere in line to be born, some eighty years from then. But that doesn't answer the question of where. :P

Oh, if you're stil at the Martha episodes, then you've got the best episodes ahead of you! The final episodes of season three are epic, and so are practically all the episodes with Donna in them... Donna is made of sheer, unadultered awesome.

[ceitean.livejournal.com]

Heh, something you said about the red string of fate made me think of something that I just worked out in a comment below. If Watanuki can no longer be connected to people by his pinky/the red string, then it makes sense that he'd have to stay in one place and never age in order for him to meet Yuuko again. Watanuki may be trying to use the store as a replacement pinky, if you will, that'll connect him to Yuuko not matter where or when she's reborn.

edit#462

[levels.livejournal.com]

While everyone is flailing around (or beating the hell out of) Watanuki, I just pity Doumeki. I don't care much about Watanuki's realisation, because I think he was slowly (very, very slowly) starting to realise it after the Window Arc. What really pisses me off is the attitude. Doumeki is clearly being cautious and is just awfully... calm (not being able to do something to solve this mess is surely eating at him, too, poor thing). And Watanuki? Snappy and rude, as usual. Fandom thinks he's "our Watanuki" that CLAMP is trying to show us is still around, but not really. That Watanuki was so to the customer, Kohane and sometimes Mokona. Doumeki, he'll still treat as the bane of his existence.

IN SHORT: WATANUKI, YOU SILLY SILLY MAN.

I'm more into the reincarnation idea, because that's what CLAMP likes to do. It happened in Wish (and wasn't pleasant at all, because the the whole sacrifice/I Love You So Imma Go Off Now was still there). While working on the mood theme*, I keep on sighing and wishing she'll just come back to crack his head with a bottle or two of that sake he seems to be drowning in these days.

Pandora: OH GIL :'D He's going to crash so bad, so soon. We'll get all sorts of clues with that, I'm sure, but it's going to be one hell of a crash. With Vincent's involvement, the little creep.


*To satisfy my OCD, I finally wrote down all the pages/panels that had our Staring Doumeki or the Doumeki Is Staring, Something Gonna Happen moments -- so many, God. And I randomly tried to check out Watanuki Is Blushing, Doumeki's Fault which happened... wow, about some 4 to 5 times -- amusing stuff, I'm telling you |:

edits are fun orz

[ceitean.livejournal.com]

omg, Doumeki. D: I feel for him, so much. In the beginning, Watanuki raged at Doumeki to try and drive him away, but know Watanuki knows that Doumeki isn't going anywhere, so it's like he has a non-literal punching bag that just keeps coming back for more. And to think, he was making so much progress. /o\

I swear, I almost want Doumeki to be seriously hurt in the next chapter. And I want it to happen right outside the goddamned gate. While Watanuki watches.

...only not really, because I'm not that sadistic, and Doumeki being hurt would make me sad. But Watanuki has got to get his head out of his ass and realize (again!!!) that his actions and self sacrifice don't just affect him.


Pandora:

it's going to be one hell of a crash.

It really is. And I hope, I hope, I hope when things reach the boiling point and Gilbert finally snaps, we'll finally get to see Raven. That would be so cool. *_*


*s-share? i like lists. o.o and how's that mood theme going?

Re: edits are fun orz

[levels.livejournal.com]

T-that what hurts the most, the coming back. I thought he would have taken over the temple, represented Japan at the Olympics (and won every single gold archery-related), set up a Home Delivery business with the shop and just... a life. This is hardly it, he's shunning himself just as much as the silly boy. CLAMP better have another human for Doumeki to interact with (please, a girlfriend, as impossible as that seems). I fear for Himawari just as much |: I have the "is studying somewhere else" idea, too, but I'm sure it's not just that.

JSLKFHLSKF I THINK THE SAME ;A; WE'RE TERRIBLE. But, but, it's just to shake Watanuki out of his little shell. And maybe show that he cares. As Doumeki have told Kohane, I too believe he thinks Watanuki doesn't like him at all and/or just doesn't care. I don't care what Watanuki thinks, he has to show it at some point (then again, it's been years, why am I asking for the impossible).

You're the Queen of Lists o/ All the Doumeki starting and etc. that I've gathered so far will be put in an entry at my journal (probably tomorrow), and I'll keep on adding as I go up the volumes (I only have up to 13, so I have to check online for the rest). I'll post the whole thing over at the comm once it's fully done, hopefully :D

Mood theme, well. The 104 one is 70% done, while the "general" one is almost empty /SHAMELESS FANGIRL.

Re: edits are fun orz

[ceitean.livejournal.com]

(please, a girlfriend, as impossible as that seems)

*dies*

He really does need someone else in his life. He deserves better, damnit.

...and now I'm picturing Yuuko singing a Madonna song. /o\ Don't go for second best, baby, put your love to the test...make him express what he's got, baby ready or not...


AWESOME. :D :D :D

Re: edits are fun orz

[levels.livejournal.com]

So much better -- unless he proves us wrong and damnit, Watanuki, do prove us wrong. Until then, a Doumeki with a girl makes me all sorts of giddy. Wish I could write. Stuff like this (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v640/baka-neko/manga/hellomrshizuka.jpg) make it hard, ;skf;sld.

Re: edits are fun orz

[ceitean.livejournal.com]

...can I take him home?

It'd be hilarious if Doumeki starts dating one of Watanuki's clients. Only I'm afraid Watanuki wouldn't react very much, since he seems (seemed?)to think Doumeki had enough lady friends already.

(and yet the king of oblivious has never once noticed that doumeki SHOWS NO INTEREST IN GIRLS. LIKE, EVER.)

...maybe doumeki should start dating one of Watanuki's male clients. I'm sure they must exist. Or get a crush on Syaoran, or something. -_-

/spams your entry

[mairenn-k.livejournal.com]

Or get a crush on Syaoran, or something.

Part of me really wants this to happen, just to see the reactions in the fandom. |D

Re: /spams your entry

[ceitean.livejournal.com]

It would be an excellent way for CLAMP to import some of Tsubasa's crackiness into Holic, that's for sure. XD

Fandom would freak out and I would laugh and laugh...

[mairenn-k.livejournal.com]

You summarized my thoughts on the latest PH chapter better than I could have done myself. Except I don't think I've seen the story through Break's eyes like that, but I get what you mean there. And yes, Gil. D: He should listen to what Break told him and start thinking more about what he really needs.

Gah, Watanuki. How does he know that she'll come back is exactly my question too. I don't know, it feel like there must be something that Watanuki knows that CLAMP hasn't told the readers yet, something that happened four years ago or whatever, but I just don't know. For a while I was wondering if Watanuki's decision to wait was the price he paid in order to help Sakura and Syaoran (the clones, I mean) to come back in some way, and that Yuuko being revived in some way would be essential for that to happen (we know that the clones disappeared because their creator did so, but technically it was Yuuko who recreated both of them after they'd died the first time), but Watanuki obviously made his decision to wait before he found out about that so it doesn't really make sense. Besides, it still doesn't explain why staying in the shop for ages would make her return (unless she's really born in the future or something like that).

There's also the fact that Watanuki seems to believe that he's fulfilling Yuuko's wish by waiting for her like that. I love how determined he is and all, but just don't see how that would make sense either.

[ceitean.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think I'm just weird with the seeing things through Break's eyes. XD I got over quickly enough, but for a while there it really was weird. ^_^;; And Gil should totally listen to Break about all of this, but you know, you can't really blame him for brushing Break off considering all the crap Break that man has put him through just for the entertainment. (ORE WA!! *cracks up*)

What I do find fascinating is that Gil did start questioning himself in the last couple of chapters. And...yeah. I really want to see how this plays out. (and Raven. i'd like to see Raven, too.)


Holic - it still doesn't explain why staying in the shop for ages would make her return. This, totally. Even if it's reincarnation or actually being from the future, how does staying in the shop for all time help? Even Yuuko left the shop when she felt like it or when she had to. And if this is a reincarnation thing and we're dealing with red string of fate type stuff...

...oh. Oh, wait a minute. *flaily hands, in rl* Red string of fate!

Remember Watanuki's pinky promise to Himawari and how after the fall Yuuko said that because of it he lost his 'pinky' for good? And then later when Watanuki had a dream about Yuuko where he tried to reach for her, but couldn't manage it and you could see that his pinky was bent down?

What if loosing his pinky (which connects people together so they can find one another in each life) meant that Watanuki lost that metaphysical connection to Yuuko? So even if Yuuko is reincarnated, there's nothing connecting the two of them any more that would enable them to meet again. So then Watanuki decides to sit his butt down in the one place Yuuko may still have a connection to so that when she finds her way there, she'll find her way to him, because otherwise it wouldn't happen. o_o

[mairenn-k.livejournal.com]

Haha, true, you can't really blame Gil. Like you say though, even if he starts questioning himself, Oz will most likely still hold on to him, so it won't be easy for him to break free.

The only possible explanation I can come up with is if Watanuki staying there all the time would be because of him paying some kind of price (or if he did it to protect himself, but that makes even less sense). That'd mean that there definitely would be something that CLAMP hasn't told us yet though.

I didn't pay very much attention to his pinky being bent down in that scene (more than in a 'oh, so CLAMP hasn't forgotten about that'-way), but now that you mention it, it could have some even deeper meaning. I didn't get the impression that Yuuko wanted him to do that though (although I don't know if that matters).

[ceitean.livejournal.com]

oh my god, I know it's kind of a cliche to say, 'your dearly departed would not want to see you act this way,' but it's so true. The whole point of Yuuko taking on Watanuki in the first place was to change him and let him grow into himself. Not to have him locked up and moldering in a cage. :/

Watanuki staying to pay a price - yeah, that's what I though at first, too, especially since that's why Yuuko was in the shop in the first place. And yeah, apparently staying in the shop is the actual price to keep the cosmic balance, but even Watanuki said that's not really why he's doing it.

I'm starting to think we're all giving the boy too much credit in the brains department, frankly. Logic does not apply in Watanuki Land.

[raelynae.livejournal.com]

The blind thing. I'm kinda' liking this complete blindness in a weird sort of way. It'll be interesting to see how she utilizes it. And how much fun it will be to break Gil, but he really needs it. He is his own person and he is allowed to grow beyond what he currently is. *pets* Elliot is still my favorite. XD

Holic... I'm totally waiting for something to happen you know? He's messing up balance, hanging on to the memories of a dead albeit awesome chick, and is genuinely not moving forward. Get with it boy, get hit by an egg or something. Himawari I hope you didn't get Hokuto syndrome. You know being an awesome character that we all love that CLAMP has mysteriously forgotten about. ;A;

[ceitean.livejournal.com]

What I think is so interesting about the blindness is that it puts such a strong handicap on Break, just when it seemed he started to grow in importance in the story line. I think it would have been very easy for Break to take over the story if things kept going the way they were. Then again, we don't know how permanent the blindness is, but either way it'll be interesting to see how Break deals with it, especially after he made his first overture to the Baskervilles. (and really, Vincent is playing both sides, why not Break, too? XD)

I think Gil is in for some definite pain in the near future. More pain. And I loooove Eliot, he's so angry and honorable. XD


get hit by an egg or something

omg, this. And what the hell happened to that egg, anyway? You think Doumeki still has it? He hasn't pulled it out to stare meaningfully at it in a while. I'm sure (re: I hope) that we'll get a check in with Himawari at some point. Maybe she's just going to school far away? (and if she is, what are the chances she did that on purpose? Given her past actions, I'd say a lot.)

[levels.livejournal.com]

He hasn't pulled it out to stare meaningfully at it in a while.

*snorts, forever*

[mairenn-k.livejournal.com]

and if she is, what are the chances she did that on purpose

I really hope that's not the case, it would seriously break my heart if she still believed that she has to stay away from the others in order not to put them in danger. It seems pretty likely that she would be going to school somewhere though, perhaps she's about to graduate soon just like Doumeki. You know, after chapter 187 was released, someone made a comment with a really awesome theory about how Himawari might become a doctor (since something about a doctor being hard to find was mentioned in that chapter). There has been absolutely nothing pointing at that so far in the story, of course, but I think it would be amazing if she ended up getting enough confidence to be able to help other people like that after everything she's been through.

[ceitean.livejournal.com]

Huh. I hadn't heard that doctor theory before. *tilts head*